It started simple enough, I just wanted to get to the bottom of something; The so called "real" image that Keith Laney says he downloaded from ASU on July 25, 2002. Little did I know what I was in for or up against, or the information that would be revealed to me. So, let me start at the beginning of my adventure.
The first thing I did was e-mail both Keith Laney and Richard Hoagland. The e-mails I sent are as follows:
I would very much like to have the image that you downloaded on the 25th, the one you used for your amazing discovery. However, I want the tiff that wasn't compressed and without the Gaussian blur.
Please e-mail it to me as soon as you can, thanks in advance.
I would very much like to see Keith Laney's image that he supposedly downloaded on the 25th, and consequently lead to the groundbreaking discovery you announced on Art Bell last Thursday night.
What I want is the uncompressed version, without the Gaussian blur applied to it. I want the original .tiff image as was downloaded from ASU's web site. If you are in possession of this image, please e-mail it to me at your earliest convenience, I would very much appreciate it.
Before we go further, I want to explain something. I was merely trying to get them to uphold the same standards as they wish of NASA. To release any and all information regarding images of Mars. Well, here is the replies I received:
The pristine version of the image in question will be
published on "Enterprise" shortly -- where everyone
may simultaneously access it and judge for themselves
Thanks for your interest in our continuing research.
Are you going to process it?
it won't come out tagged with the original DL date on it, but the image is good.
let me know, it's a 3.88mb LZW tiff
Well, as you can see, Hoagland said the data was going to come forward, so I figured pursuing this matter with him would be a dead end, but I still corresponded with Keith in an attempt to get the image. Also note in his e-mail that he said the image was compressed, here is my reply to him:
Yes I plan on processing it. When you downloaded it, did it already have the Lempel-Ziv compression? I want the original image you downloaded, as you received it. No compression and no Gaussian blur.
And the reply I got from him was:
Get it from one of the nice folks that were kind enough to show some courtesy and thus received it.
Be nice to them or they will probably not give it to you either.
While I certainly didn't consider myself rude in the e-mails I sent, in all fairness I was a little hard on the guy over at the TEM bbs. Bearing this in mind I wrote back to Keith:
First I want to apologize to you for the way I came off to you in the forum. I can come off pretty strong, and tend to shoot from the hip when I get excited. I just want to believe you in all of this. You have made the single most important and exciting discovery in the history of mankind. All I am asking for is the original tiff image that you downloaded from ASU on the 25th.
As you can see from some of my other posts in the forum, I think you can see that I am a man who seeks the truth. If you provide me with what I have requested, I will promptly come out in public and verify that you gave me what I wanted. I have no pride to swallow, if I am wrong, I will admit it, publicly.
I ask you to reconsider my request, I have made no threats nor will I if you refuse, but allot people pay attention to of what I have to say, and I can help you get the truth out.
Well Keith wrote back to me, didn't send me the image though, and this is what he said:
S'allright Catfish, but you have to understand, I've been doing this stuff a long time, waiting for them to slip up like this. The image was Dl'ed a tiff, and has stayed a tiff, no change.
you won't get a creation date on it except the date when it was stored on your computer.
I have put my watermark on it as well. It was given to me, understand? The logs of when I got it, and where must stay pristine, just in case.
You don't know what all I've been through over this. All these people here that say this and that... they have no idea.
You don't see it? I've been here for years, never misled anybody about anything, or at least if I have it was honest and unintentional..
These guys start hanging out here and slip me the real shit and then dare me to do something with it.
I do, it smokes them, and then everybody jumps to their side while I get called a fraud and all.
To hell with that.
There would be no color IR at all of this place if left up to them, but I get crap for doing what they won't, and WE PAY THEM TO!
I could submerge and leave all guessing what I'll do next. I just might.
So I wrote back to him yet again:
Keith, I know that if you send my the image it wont prove anything about when or where you downloaded it from. All I am asking of you is to send me the image, unaltered in any way, to me. I want it just like you originally got it. What I can then do is tell the world that you gave it to me. Then we can get that out of the way.
As you can plainly see, all I wanted was the unaltered image that he downloaded from ASU as he claims he did. Well, he sent me an image and this short note:
This is as original as I can get it to you.
Have fun. But don't try to turn it around and sic it on me. I always buy insurance.
Well, he did send me an image, but not what I had asked him so many times for. The image he sent me was compressed and had a blur applied to it, and it also had his name on it. As far as his comments about buying insurance, well I am not sure what that means. Could have been a threat, a bluff, I just dot know for sure what that meant. Regardless, it was not the image I had asked for from him, so I wrote back, and asked a simple yes or no question in my e-mail:
Thanks for the image! Now, before I go tell the world you gave it to me, I have only one question, probably a stupid one, but here goes: Was the image compressed already when you downloaded it?
Now this is where it starts to get somewhat interesting. All I wanted to know is if the image was compressed when he got it, and here is his reply:
It should be 5.17mb on your disc. E-mail does that, Tiff is a compressible lossless data format.
As you can clearly see, he didn't answer my question regarding whether it was already compressed when he got it. Instead he claims that e-mailing the image compressed it. Well, in talking with people much smarter than me, it turns out his statement is bullpucky. So, I wrote back to him yet again:
um, I'm not quite sure that answered my question. Was the Lempel-Ziv compression already in place when you downloaded it? And are you saying e-mailing an image automatically compresses it? By the way, hope the show is going good, I will try to call in if I can get through.
Me reference to the "show" was in regards to the radio show him and Hoagland were on, hosted by Mars Revealer, aka Gary. Well, as far as I know, I received no reply to that e-mail, but I was able to call into the show and ask Hoagland some questions. The main question I asked him, was what proof did he have that the image was indeed real as he claimed? The response I got on air was that his proof was going onto Art Bell and announcing it. What a bunch of crap is all I can say.
So, the next day I emailed Keith, trying to get a straight answer out of him, this is what I wrote:
I just don't understand, granted I am not the image processor you are, but I'm no idiot either. All I am asking for is a show of good faith by you. I asked for the original .tiff image that you downloaded on the 25th, and that's not what I got from you. I want the image, uncompressed and without the Gaussin blur.
Once again, let me reiterate my position, I am on your side, hard as that may be to believe. By giving me what I have requested, I can tell the world that you do indeed have the image.
Please send me the image, that's all I am asking for. After I have received it, we can go from there. If there is some reason why you don't want to send me the image, just tell me.
I sent it to you.
I tagged it.
what's the deal?
Seeing that I was getting no where in acquiring the image I wanted from him, I asked him a simple straight forward question about the image he sent me:
So when you downloaded the image it was already compressed?
It's a tiff.
tiff does not mean uncompressible.
Is the image 5.17 mb on your disc?
If so, you've got the one I sent.
Clearly he wasn't answering my question, so I wrote back yet again:
yes its 5.17MB on my disk, but that doesn't answer my question. Was the imaged compressed when you got it.
Sent to you straight out of my files. Last place it was transferred from was the web site
that's how tiff does.
He clearly doesn't want to answer my question! So I write back to him, yet again:
Look man, all I am asking is a simple yes or no question. Was the image compressed when you got it? Yes or no? It obviously wasn't the exact image, because it had your watermark on it. So, I will ask again, was it compressed when you got it? Yes or no?
A simple yes or no question is what I asked, the reply I got was this:
and I answered you. I added my tag, and that's the ONLY way I'm going to release it to anyone. All else is just as it is.
Well, he claims to have answered me, and although I can be a little slow sometimes and miss things, I am positive he never answered my question regarding if the image was compressed when he got it. From that last e-mail, I figured his answer was yes, because he clearly states the only thing he did to it was add his tag. So, I wrote back to him yet again:
Well then you haven't given me what I requested Keith, the original data. Now I cant go out and tell the world your show of good faith towards me. In fact if any thing you have only try to obfuscate the facts in our exchanges. You have done everything from dodge a simple question to claim the image was compressed because of e-mail. I have tried to help you here, tried to get the truth, and you have denied me virtually every step of the way
As you can see from my e-mail, I was quite frustrated in my attempts to get a straight answer out of him. And from Keith's reply, he is obviously frustrated with me asking:
No, I did send it to you, which I was under no obligation to do in the first place.
I can't help it you don't understand that tiff compresses when its sent. Read the frikkin header.
I'm not sure you really know even what you're doing with the image at all.
Quit lying and posting misrepresentations.
I don't owe you squat and never have.
whether you are "on my side" or not is irrelevant.
You want an original absolute version of that picture then have your buddy Bamf direct you to where it's kept at ASU.
I haven't dodged you, but you have been an arrogant ass to me
I have never lied about this whole thing, nor have I posted misrepresentations. Keith is obviously upset at me for digging to deep and trying to get the truth. Well, no big deal, because things had just taken a turn in my investigation of this image. Here is a chat log of a very weird and short conversation I had with someone:
[18:53] <Jerry> spacecatfish?
[18:53] <Jerry> that's you?
[18:53] <catfish> yep :)
[18:54] <Jerry> did u see who deep space is?
[18:54] <catfish> no, not yet. do you know who it is?
[18:54] <Jerry> someone must have got fed up with hoagies games...
[18:55] <Jerry> and put his piccy up on the bbs
[18:55] <catfish> where?
[18:55] <Jerry> better be quick...
[18:55] <Jerry> "an insider speaks"
[18:57] <catfish> i think that post looks like a joke, kbs was trying to be funny i think
[18:58] <Jerry> oh, if that's what u think.. ;)
[18:59] <Jerry> "plausible deniability"
[18:59] <Jerry> you should know after the IR fiasco...
[18:59] <catfish> can i ask who i am speaking too?
[18:59] <Jerry> well,must be goin'... it's been nice chattin
[19:00] <Jerry> jerry
[19:00] <catfish> do you post in the forum at all?
[19:00] <Jerry> maybe,i'm a bit like MR, always stoned.. so i forget
[19:01] <catfish> what name do you post under?
Session Close: Sat Sep 07 19:47:51 2002
Well while we were talking I was also checking the thread to see what I could find. Well, "Jerry" left before I could get any answers, so I decided to PM a KBS from the thread I just had read. I asked two questions, who was that in the picture in the thread, and who are you. The reply I got back was this:
Do you think Hoagland knows all the rules but doesn't play the game?
Do not reply, this account is now abandoned.
This image was also included:
Very strange to say the least, and actually I found it somewhat disturbing. I didnt know if this was a theat to me or what. The next thing I did was make a cryptic post in the same thread, and I received a chat log that someone was told to send me:
Session Ident: Sceptor
[11:08] Session Ident: Sceptor (firstname.lastname@example.org)
[11:08] <Sceptor> KBS
[11:09] <Os> Hi
[11:09] <Sceptor> Not him
[11:09] <Os> Ok
[11:09] <Sceptor> Replacement again
[11:09] <Os> ok
[11:09] <Sceptor> Relay final message?
[11:09] <Os> ok
[11:09] <Sceptor> DS has been outted
[11:10] <Os> By KBS on the boards?
[11:10] <Sceptor> Tell them they can thank Bara for that
[11:10] <Sceptor> The guy should not answer "yes" when he means to say "no"
[11:10] <Sceptor> Pass that message on..
[11:10] <Os> To Richard?
[11:10] <Sceptor> Yes
[11:10] <Os> ok
[11:11] <Os> Is that what Cat was on about earlier?
[11:11] <Sceptor> What he did he say?
[11:11] <Os> Just asked if anyone knew KBS
[11:11] <Sceptor> And?
[11:11] <Os> I asked if it had to do with that post where he put a pic and said he was DS and Cat wouldn't say more right now.
[11:12] <Os> Said he might if he finds out more.
[11:12] <Os> I would hardly imagine anyone would believe that post.
[11:13] <Sceptor> That's the whole point.. only the insiders get it
[11:13] <Os> You're surely not saying that CAT is an insider?
[11:13] <Sceptor> Relay message to spacecatfish?
[11:13] <Os> Sure
[11:13] <Sceptor> No.. he was tipped off
[11:13] <Os> By one of us?
[11:14] <Sceptor> We tipped him off
[11:14] <Os> Oh. Okay.
[11:14] <Os> So why not tip me off?
[11:14] <Sceptor> Because he has no idea what's been going on the last few days
[11:15] <Os> Okay. But the contact with me here Tachyon seemed surprised that I didn't know who 'WE' are. He said Hoagland would know.
[11:15] <Os> But I asked Robin, and she said they didn't know.
[11:15] <Os> So can you tell me? If it isn't any big secret?
[11:15] <Sceptor> Message to sc: do NOT relay last information to Hoagland
[11:15] <Os> That all? Will he understand?
[11:15] <Sceptor> Last info was for HIM only
[11:15] <Os> Right.
[11:15] <Sceptor> Yes...
[11:15] <Os> He will ask me where I got it from
[11:16] <Sceptor> Also, tell him subject referred to (person) is NOT IN PHYSICAL DANGER
[11:16] <Os> Okay. What do I say when he asks me where I got the message from?
[11:16] <Sceptor> The "event" has already occurred
[11:16] <Os> And he WILL understand?
[11:17] <Sceptor> Finally, tell him NOT to relay this information to the subject, he is not intelligent enough to comprehend it and will most likely panic
[11:17] <Os> Okay I will do. Are you not going to answer any of my questions?
[11:17] <Sceptor> Which question first?
[11:18] <Os> Lol
[11:18] <Os> I think most importantly how do I answer Cat's obvious queries to me.
[11:19] <Sceptor> You don't.. that's all he needs to know
[11:19] <Sceptor> But email him NOW... imperative!
[11:19] <Os> Like who told me this? How did I hear about it? Who am I? and what do I know? Etc.
[11:19] <Os> Okay.
[11:19] <Sceptor> He won't ask... trust me, he'll know what you're talking about
[11:19] <Os> I don't have an email address for him. I was going to DCC it when he comes back
[11:19] <Os> Do you have one?
[11:20] <Sceptor> email@example.com
[11:20] <Sceptor> Please do it now
[11:20] <Os> Okay. Thanks I'll do it right away. I just need to edit out the relevant bits of your message.
[11:20] <Os> Is that it?
[11:21] <Sceptor> Yes.. make send the full info
[11:21] <Sceptor> Yes.. but send the full info
[11:21] <Os> You mean everything you have said to tell him. But not this whole chat?
[11:22] <Sceptor> Just send the log
[11:22] <Os> Okay.
[11:22] <Sceptor> Thankyou OS, again.
[11:22] <Os> Okay. Thanks to you.
[11:22] <Os> Lol
[11:22] * Os chuckles
Session Close: Sun Sep 08 11:23:01 2002
Now, I was really confused, so I decided to email Hoagland again:
So, it now appears I may be getting close to something, perhaps to close for somebody's comfort. I was contacted tonight with some information, information I was told not to share with you, and yet one of your contacts relayed the information to me.
Its all very confusing, and I don't like games. One thing is for sure though, come Monday morning, I am going to get some answers, I give you my personal guarantee on that one my friend.
I really don't see what the problem is here, all I am trying to do is find the truth, something I once thought you were trying to do also.
Good luck on the show tonight, unfortunately, I cant listen to it live, but I sure do plan on calling in.
What I meant by Monday morning was that I planned on calling who I thought was Deep Space. This is the reply that he sent me:
> > >
> > > I don't like games either. So, I play for keeps.
> > >
> > > And the truth is the ONLY thing I'm interested in.
> > > Which is why so many others are now frantically
> > > playing all kinds of games around this data ....
> > >
> > > Keep digging. :)
> > >
> > >
> > > RCH
No kidding people were playing games with this data, his side included Well, I made another cryptic post I the thread again, hoping to get a response, and I did:
We're not mindfucking you... please withhold judgement until
further data comes in. Speech reversals will confirm Hoagland's
manipulation. Data regarding DS identity is valid. Please
do not mention this communication to anyone. We have good
So I reply to that e-mail:
Maybe if I had an idea of who I was dealing with, I might back off, or at
least not be so vocal. I am in contact with David Oates, reversals are on
their way. You may be interested to know that I was able to get through to
Hoagland on Mars Revealer's show. My attempts at debate were successfully
routed. None the less, reversals of what took place when I called should be
interesting. Rest assured, Hoagland knows nothing of our communication,
unless of course you are him.
I had seriously thought that Hoagland was playing games with me for a while. Well, I made yet another cryptic post in the thread, I was becoming angry because people were playing games with me, and this is the reply I got:
It would be unwise to make further public posts relating to this
issue. It would in fact be wise to delete them immediately. It
would also be wise for your friend to remove his diatribe. Your
communications with him were monitored.
Stand down, Mr. Caflisch, this need not go any further. Do as
we request and you will not hear from us again. Do not respond
to this message.
Now, I started to get worried for my personal safety, and I wrote back to Hoagland:
I enjoyed speaking with you last night on Gary's radio show. I am glad
to see that you and Keith are going to put out the "real" image very soon.
Once that is done, I can move onto the next thing, which is why I am
replying back to you.
For some reason, as I stated in my previous e-mail to you, I have been
contacted and subsequently given information about Deep Space, meaning I now
know who he is. Well, it seems one side possibly wants me to out him, while
the other side, well lets just say the other side is none to happy. In fact
approximately 15 minutes before I received your first e-mail, I received an
e-mail telling me to stand down, or else.
Ordinarily, I would chalk this up to some internet prankster, except for
one person involved: Vicky Pike aka Os, Osirius, or your "Australian
Contact"(as you referred to her on Art Bell on Thursday). It seems that
these people that have contacted me, have also contacted her in the past,
and asked her to relay messages to you through Robin. Vicky said that often
times these messages were cryptic, she didn't know what they meant, but she
passed them on just the same. While Vicky didn't know what these messages
meant, she got the impression from Robin that you understood these messages
So, because of what I just stated, I am starting to think that this is
not a prank. Mr. Hoagland, I am a construction worker, a simple man, but I
also enjoy a good mystery and getting to the bottom of it. In your previous
e-mails to me, you indicated for me to continue to dig and search, well that
is what I am going to do, even if someone threatens me to stop.
One more thing, I was warned not to contact you with what I know. That
is the main reason I have now contacted you.
PS. When the time is right, I can prove everything I have said above.
Backup files of all correspondence I have had with these people have been
made and given to people I would trust with my life. Your conspiracies have
always been fun to listen to on Art Bell, but it ceases to be fun when my
life is threatened.
This is the reply I got from Hoagland:
> One simple way to determine if you are being "bamfed,"
> is to simply tell me who you've been informed "Deep
> Space" is. Since I already know [ :)], you won't be
> telling me anything I shouldn't know. :)
> But, if it's NOT an accurate "leak," and your name is
> NOT the individual in question -- then we'll all know
> that you've been set up. And then you will have to
> attempt to find out "why."
> Since threats are involved here (one was made against
> me at 5:30 AM the other morning, from these same
> individuals), I think you owe it to yourself to bring
> this farce rapidly to a close.
> The stakes are far higher than any of those endlessly
> discussing this in Enterprise seem to currently
> realize. You, because of these very personal threats,
> seem to be gaining a rapid new appreciation for what
> we're ALL involved in.
> So, who is "Deep Space?" By furnishing that
> information, this will remove you from the line of
> fire very quickly. Immediately, they will no longer
> have a threat to hold over you.
Well, I had made another post in the thread, saying I wouldn't back down. While I was composing a reply to Hoaglands e-mail above, I received this e-mail:
Hoagland knows who we are. Call (555) 555 5555 and he may tell you.
No further warnings. You are nothing.
I have changed the number to protect the person's privacy. But, since I was in search of answers, I called the number. Before I called, I blocked my number so it wouldn't show up on caller ID or *69. Well the number I called didn't accept blocked numbers, so I hung up, unblocked my number and called back. No one answered, but imagine my suprise when I got Hoaglands voicemail, it was his own home phone number! I immediately hung up, didn't even leave a message. I knew I had invaded his privacy, and I felt really bad. A minute later, his girlfriend Robin, called me back. We talked for about a half an hour, it was approximately 3:40 AM my time, 1:40 AM her time. She said it sounded like the same people harassing me were doing it to her and richard also. We talked about the thread where Deep Space had been outed, and she said it wasnt him. Before we said our goodbyes, she said she would e-mail at a later time. I then hung up and sent an e-mail to Hoagland:
What a night, er, morning the two of us are having together. :)
I was in the middle of composing a reply to you when I was emailed by the
now infamous Cartgrp. Well, for now, it seems as if I was the victim of a
hoax. The email I was sent told me to call a number and find out who I was
dealing with, so like a good little investigator, I called. Imagine my
surprise when I got your voicemail! Well, I panicked I guess you could say
and hung up the phone.
I decided to have a smoke and calm my nerves when the phone starts to
ring. Needless to say, it was Robin, and we ended up having a very pleasant
conversation for about a half hour. She filled me in on what I needed to
know concerning the weekend's events concerning this group of individuals.
Let me say first that my investigation regarding these individuals has
not come to an end, I fully plan to root them out and expose them for what
they have done to you and me. However, I think the issue of me knowing who
Deep Space is has been settled. While I am confident at this time I DO NOT
know who he/she is, that doesn't mean I don't want to know. :)
At this time however, I am not going to press this issue with you any
I would also like to apologize for interrupting your privacy by calling
your home. You must admit though that when someone gives you a phone number
and says call it and get the answers, you would have done the same as me.
Having said that, rest assured that your privacy is assured when it comes to
me. I have no intention of ever calling you again, nor will I give out your
number. I suggested to Robin to have it changed, but she said what is the
point, they will just find your new number, which makes sense to me.
I definitely have a new found respect for you, what you do, and the
things you have to put up with. The only question I have of you for the
time being is if you have any personal reasons as to why I was picked out of
a crowd to be sent to "get" you. I can only come up with one answer for
I like to think that I have a reputation around your community as
someone that searches for the truth and doesn't stop until I get answers. I
believe this is demonstrated in the Possible Terror Attack Threat for NYC
thread that I started and painstakingly researched. I spent hours upon
countless hours trying to verify a terror threat to NYC on August 11, 2002.
All information and most of my correspondence with people was put in that
thread for all to see, I wasn't trying to hide anything. Perhaps these
individuals saw this and figured I was a good choice to get the truth out.
Then again maybe Im full of it and they threw a dart at a wall with a bunch
of names on it, and it hit mine.
If there is anything you can tell me as to why you think I may have been
"chosen" by them, please let me know. I would be surprised if you did know
why, especially since the two of us have never been in contact before. The
whole thing is very strange to say the least.
The next day, Robin emailed me and gave me her AOL Instant Messenger ID, and I chatted with her for a while, here is the log:
DrRealred: what's up
catfish702002: i got your email
DrRealred: didn't see the message. i've been on the phone
catfish702002: sorry i didnt contact you sooner, had to downlaod aim
DrRealred: no prob
DrRealred: has anything else happened
catfish702002: i was contacted in the chat room tonite
DrRealred: i finally have another keyboard and don't have to feel like my wrists are breaking
DrRealred: by who?
catfish702002: thagalag? I think that was the name
catfish702002: traced the ip to australia
DrRealred: diff name same game
catfish702002: i have also traced the emails i have recieved to australia
DrRealred: i bet the phone co would have a record of the call from au, that would show if they were an 'agency or not'
catfish702002: you mean when they called you?
DrRealred: forgot .. they could have forwarded the call through a local number
catfish702002: they apologized for threatening me
DrRealred: it's too easy to get away with stuff like that....oh really
catfish702002: i said it was to late for apologies and i was working on tracking them down
catfish702002: they didnt say much about that
catfish702002: said their ip was hijacked and would lead nowhere
DrRealred: hmmm, what else did they say
DrRealred: did you save it?
catfish702002: yes, i saved it
catfish702002: but i am keeping it to myself and one other for now
DrRealred: who may i ask is the one other
catfish702002: i have asked someone to help me on this
DrRealred: someone from the board?
catfish702002: that is confidential at this time
catfish702002: he asked me to keep it quiet until we figured it out
catfish702002: something to do with legal reasons or something like that
DrRealred: look, if you're aren't sharing the info don't bother contacting us. It's more games. I shared the info with you
DrRealred: i don't know who is advising you, but I can guess. It's your call
catfish702002: i am not trying to play any games with you or anyone else, please dont get the wrong idea Robin. when i can verify who this is i will tell you. the person i have working for me asked that i dont mention who he is.
catfish702002: i hate sevrets as much as anyone else
catfish702002: secrets i mean
DrRealred: good luck, I wish you well
catfish702002: just for fun, tell me who you think is advising me
DrRealred: someone who is at the board
catfish702002: you mean the enterprise mission bbs?
catfish702002: no, it is not
catfish702002: it is just someone who is much more computer savvy than i am
DrRealred: the what diff could it possibly make, i would not know who they are
catfish702002: because, quite frankly, i think they are scared because of the emails i have showed them. they thought my life might have been in danger(i dont think it is), so they asked me not to mention who they are so they dont get dragged into this mess
DrRealred: your call, i still think it is someone from the boards.
catfish702002: they are aware of who richard is and how public he is, they are also worried about that, possibly being brought into a public situation when they dont want to be made public
DrRealred: i gave you advice last night. by the way, who did they tell you was ds, the person in picture
catfish702002: well they never really told me for sure, so i dont honestly know for sure
catfish702002: they are playing games with me and think i know something i dont
DrRealred: i thought you said you did in your email
DrRealred: yes, i realize that. they think i know more than i do
DrRealred: and to reiterate, richard does NOT know what they are talking about
catfish702002: well when we talked on the phone, we covered who i THOUGHT ds was, remember?
DrRealred: no, I don't remember
catfish702002: um, this whole thing is getting really weird
DrRealred: it's been really weird all along. as i told you.... the best thing is to ignore them
DrRealred: who di you say it was...ireally don't remember
catfish702002: hold up for a second please
catfish702002: how do i know who i am even talking too. i hate to sound paranoid, but i have been thrust into the middle of a very strange situation and i dont know why
DrRealred: with me, now?
catfish702002: well, how do i kow i am talking to robin right now?
DrRealred: you called our house first and hung up when you got the machine
DrRealred: it was about 2:30 am. I called you back
DrRealred: and we spoke for half an hour.
DrRealred: You sent richard a couple of emails and he asked me to reply
catfish702002: ok, i believe you, forgive my paranoia
DrRealred: i told you i only had time for a short note and then sent another with this im in the subject
DrRealred: i'm multitasking now
DrRealred: just found out a friend got a virus from going to chat
catfish702002: which chat?
catfish702002: who is your friend?
DrRealred: what diff does it make
catfish702002: because i want to know if it is connected somehow
DrRealred: i have to talk to her to find out what happened
DrRealred: she has nothing to do with them or any of that
catfish702002: what is her name in chat?
DrRealred: i do need to speak to her and see if she accepted anything and from who
DrRealred: I'd rather not say
DrRealred: she is not in NM
DrRealred: we have a lot of people we know that pass by there occasionally, more so now after all the weird stuff
catfish702002: dont you think it a little wierd that one of your friends got a virus from going in the chat? you dont think it is connected somehow?
DrRealred: they would not have known who she is and I don't think any of the names who have been involved were there
DrRealred: i saw the log from when she was there. another friend sent it
DrRealred: have others received viruses there
catfish702002: not that i am aware of
DrRealred: it could have been something else
DrRealred: that's why i need to talk with her....all speculation now
DrRealred: so now you know it is me, who did you think was ds?
catfish702002: you see, you have friends all over the place, i dont, so if i chose to keep something to myself for the time being, it is because i dont know who to trust
catfish702002: let me put it this way, i told you on the phone who i had been told ds was and you said it wasnt him
DrRealred: in light of what goes on there, don't you think we need people to stop in there from time to time?
catfish702002: well you have your plants in there, i dont know who they are, so i have to be suspicious of everyone, especially now
DrRealred: Idon't remember if you thought it was the person in the photo or what. at this point it doesn't matter
catfish702002: you said it was not the person in the photo, and i believed you
catfish702002: now i wonder though
DrRealred: my "plants" are interested in richard's work, they were there before all of this
DrRealred: you can go and report back about that
catfish702002: report to whom?
DrRealred: listen, i just hope you will be careful, don't provoke a bigger problem for yourself
catfish702002: excuse me?
DrRealred: i saw your post in the thread that you will not stand down, that seemed as if it would just antagonize the situation for you
catfish702002: why do i get the feeling you know what i am up against?
DrRealred: i told you as much as i know and my experience with these people who appear to be the same
catfish702002: yes, i do
DrRealred: if i didn't take the bait and reply, that would have been it
DrRealred: we don't know why you were singled out. richard said maybe because of the your posts about the earlier terrorist threat
DrRealred: we're guessing
catfish702002: well, i have ceased trying to communicate with them, but they still want to talk to me
DrRealred: they said, 'stick to mars.'
DrRealred: you mean from tonight in chat?
DrRealred: i don't know what to tell you other than to keep track of it all
catfish702002: in fact, they laid out some of the scenario for me, so unbelievable, it just doesnt seem possible
catfish702002: can i ask you a question about mike bara regarding ds?
DrRealred: if they have you given you more info and you are not sharing it with me, this is pointless
catfish702002: well if these people are just pranksters and trouble makers, why do you want to know what they told me so badly?
DrRealred: don't play games with me, i have tried to help you and share what i know
DrRealred: i don't know if they are psychos or psyops
catfish702002: i am not playing games with you, but before i tell you anything, they said you would try to contact me again and ask me about them
catfish702002: and here we are robin
DrRealred: excuse me, you contacted me. i just wrote back to you because richard was busy. i gave you the im because when i go into chat, i don't want to have conversations about this
DrRealred: you called us, you emailed richard..... not the other way around
catfish702002: are you worried about someone monitoring our conversation in the chat room?
DrRealred: anything is possible
catfish702002: well there is only one person that could possibly monitor our commo in chat, and i dont know if even he has that capability
DrRealred: i wonder who that could be?
DrRealred: not important any more
catfish702002: first i originally contacted richard about getting th original image from him. Secondly, i called you because i was given yor number by someone, i vertainly didnt know that is was your number when i callled
catfish702002: sorry bad typer
catfish702002: just so you know, rick knows nothing about this
DrRealred: keyboards make a big diff, i thought it was me before
DrRealred: i just don't understand his hostility
DrRealred: not my place to interfere
catfish702002: in my commo tonite with the "other" side, psyops was mentioned
DrRealred: that is what they mention in the threads
DrRealred: no mystery there
catfish702002: well i dont read every thread, time does not allow, so you may very well be right on that
DrRealred: it's in the insider speaks
catfish702002: oh, guess i dont remember where that was brought up in there
catfish702002: listen, what is it that you think i know and you want me to tell you
DrRealred: it seems neither one of us knows much about the situation
DrRealred: i have not had further contact with them and you did, that is all
catfish702002: ask me a question, if i know the answer, i will tell you, except for the person helping me out on this
DrRealred: it's fine. there really is nothing more to ask. I'm just hoping it all goes away.
DrRealred: I have no interest in speaking with them or hearing from them or attempting to defend what they say about me or richard.
DrRealred: Richard was right, as he usually is. He has much more experience with this than I, and he said it is a bottomless pit, once you start answering
catfish702002: well from what little i know it seems to me this whole thing is mike bara's fault
DrRealred: part of their objectives are to monopolize your time, i have too much to do to waste any more on that
DrRealred: that is truly bizarre
catfish702002: what is bizarre?
DrRealred: that it is bara's fault
catfish702002: well if you read the thread that contains the email to bara and from him, it would seem that ds is going to go public
catfish702002: is ds really going to go public?
DrRealred: what would there be to gain with that? which thread with bara
catfish702002: let me see if i can find it quick
catfish702002: hang tight
catfish702002: http://forum.enterprisemission.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get _topic;f=25;t=004638 DrRealred: just a min
catfish702002: so is ds going to go public as bara said?
DrRealred: not that i have heard
catfish702002: these people contacing me are pissed at bara for saying that
catfish702002: in fact they said bara should learn to say no
catfish702002: or something to that effect
catfish702002: why would bara say it if it wasnt true?
DrRealred: let me read what you sent
DrRealred: just amin
DrRealred: mike would never do that
catfish702002: so is mr eon lying?
DrRealred: you are not seeing the whole letter. how do you know what the context is
catfish702002: i dont know the context
catfish702002: but as you can see in the thread, apperently bara said ds would be going public. so the question is, is mr eon making it up or did bara screw up?
catfish702002: perhaps you should talk with bara and confirm what he said, or is he said anything
DrRealred: You have not seen the whole letter. Do you think mike is a duumy?
DrRealred: who is mr eon
DrRealred: it is not mikes call if someone else is going public
catfish702002: i dont know who mr eon is, i just know he started the thread and wrote a letter to bara
DrRealred: let me say it again....
DrRealred: alll he quotes from bara are 3 words
catfish702002: let me say it again
DrRealred: you do not know the context in which it was used
catfish702002: perhaps you should talk to mike and confirm if this is true or not
catfish702002: i understand i dont know the context
DrRealred: this is silly. in this i can certainly speak for him
catfish702002: well then perhaps should have some words with mr eon for posting false information
DrRealred: i wouldn't even waste my time, it is so silly
catfish702002: granted it may seem silly, but alot of people are hanging on that thread and waiting for to find out who ds is
DrRealred: if you want to pursue it, you can . by the way, at this time it is not permitted to quote from private emails on enterprise. Feel free to write to mike for further clarification. If you feel this so important, then that should help the situation
catfish702002: well perhaps you should contact mike yourself and se if he can clarify this with mr eon
DrRealred: you can ask him to mame a reply or ask permission to qoute him
catfish702002: personally i dont care about what took place in that thread
DrRealred: i know it is nonsense to expand this spy thriller about is ds coming out or not. can't you see it
catfish702002: i wouldnt think mike would want people going around posting private correspondence between him and someone else, or quoting him out of context
DrRealred: people that do that from now on will be banned.
DrRealred: you can check with RF
catfish702002: this whole thing is nonsense robin, but it is nonsense that i have been dragged into for some reason
DrRealred: i do not have the time to get involved with every single thing in question at the boards. I do not know why you are involved
catfish702002: i suggest if you have a problem with what was in that thread, you contact rf burns yourself
DrRealred: we just have to wait and see. if it bothers them so much, they can call bara
DrRealred: we are going in circles agin, you are the one who brought that up...i saw it and thought 'how silly'
DrRealred: someone is just speculating about ds and misquoting mike
catfish702002: the only reason i brought it up was because i asked you if ds was indeed going public, and if he was not, then you should talk to mike about what he said
DrRealred: i can call mr. burns attention to it since it is a violation of the rules
DrRealred: mr eon can ask for mike's permission to quote him
catfish702002: just between you and me, i am going to tell you what "they" told me as to why i was brought in on this
catfish702002: they said i was informed because i figured out keith laney was being set up as a patsy
DrRealred: i have gone over everything with you. i hope this will all just go away
catfish702002: as do i, but for some reason i dont think it will
DrRealred: sorry, missed what you wrote, the screen was stuck at an earlier entry
DrRealred: i think you told me that last night.
DrRealred: keith has not been set up. you will see
DrRealred: we are worried about bamf not realizing what he has gotten into
catfish702002: well, i often wonder what you really know about noel
catfish702002: in fact i have seen some glaring mistakes that lead me to believe you think noel is more involved than he really is
catfish702002: sometimes people see a conspiracy where there isnt one
DrRealred: bottom line is none of us really know the whole story yet. believe me it will come out
catfish702002: my dad once said the great thing about a conspiracy theory is that they are impossible to disprove
catfish702002: how would you feel if noel had nothing to do with this and yet you dragged him in anyways?
catfish702002: by the way, i am working on finding out exactly how much time noel pent in the chat room
DrRealred: i hav not draged him into anything, he entered this arena on his. that will be interestng info.
DrRealred: I'm curious to see
catfish702002: you know, rick is not a bad guy, i think there was some miscommunication between him and richard that spiraled out of control
catfish702002: but i am also being told something about that whole mess too
DrRealred: what do you mean
catfish702002: do you remeber that whole mess about the fight over richard doing gary's show and not a webchat?
catfish702002: well i was told that was orchestrated to get rid of rick
DrRealred: that is crazy
DrRealred: no base in truth what so ever
DrRealred: it seems more like a power play
catfish702002: i didnt think so, except for the fact that richard and rick seem to be friends or at least cordial to one another, then because of that whole mess, richard got rid of rick. the whole thing was very unpleasant i was told
DrRealred: the unpleasant part was telling richard what he can and cannot do
catfish702002: well, i really dont want to bring up that whole mess again, but there were rules that were broken and rick merely tried to enforce the rules, from there it spiraled downward, forcing richard and rick to no longer work together
catfish702002: it seems to me that rick would be a good guy to have on your side
DrRealred: listen, it is not my place to discuss richard's decision's. I have found that he knows what he is doing. I have to take care of some other things, so I can get to sleep earlier tongith
catfish702002: goodnight Robin
DrRealred: goodnight, take care
As you can see, she clearly doesnt remember what we talked about the following night about who I thought Deep Space was, claiming she was to tired the night bfore to remember the details. Funny how I could remember them, even though it was much later where I am than she is. Also remember, I have yet to tell them the name of who I was told Deep Space was. She is also is clearly miffed because I wouldn't tell her who I brought in on this to help me track these people down.
So, I was still mad that I hadn't received the original image as Keith had downloaded it or that it hadn't been released yet, so I posted my now infamous warning thread. I also emailed Hoagland and Keith:
I am giving both of you until 6PM Central time Friday to come forward with the image. If you don't, I will be forced to come forward with what I know and show all documentation regarding what I know.
You honestly think I'm going to give you something I haven't already?
You have no loss tiffs of it, if that isn't good enouigh for you that's too bad.
Like I said, or else what?
This is an example of what I'm getting from my originals.
You're outta your mind if you think I'm showing anything else until I have accurately analyzed it.
If you don't like it do whatever.
But what is really interesting is Hoagland's reply:
> It is obvious that you have no idea what is truly
> going on here. Further, you are even less aware with
> whom you are truly dealing with.
> I suggest you carefully reconsider your position, and
> desist from any further infantile "threats."
> History does not deal kindly with fools ....
> P.S. This is a PRIVATE communication. Any
> publication will be dealt with swiftly.
Boy if he didn't just threaten me, I dot what else to say. And since he knew I was already going to publish everything I have, I believe that negates his private publication warning. Hoagland also launched a smear campaign against me behind the scenes, telling people I was calling him nonstop and harassing and threatening him, pure lies. Realizing he couldn't stop me, he then made a move to ban me from his forum, which didn't work either, since technically I broke no rules.
The funny thing is, for the most part I have been bluffing my way through this, but Hoagland thought I was for real, otherwise he wouldn't have went on the warpath trying to censor what I have to say.
Oh yes, I almost forgot, Deep Space is George Keyworth, former science advisor to Ronald Reagan.